Obama vs Berg Court Case

I started a new topic for this because although related, it is not really pertinent to the rest of the conversations.

I will admit that the odds of any of this being completely true are slim, but i really don't think we can afford to just take Obama at his word. This is the presidency of the United States of America for crying out loud. We can not afford to be wrong here. Whether you agree with him or not, he makes some very good points.





Although kinda crappy, he is legally correct. By failure to respond in timely manner, the DNC by default admits to this. Even though Obama is more or less completely ignoring this case, which if he has nothing to hide is idiotic, and if he does have something to hide is smart, legally his campaign can not afford to ignore it for as long as they have. When confronted about the very same thing, McCain pulled out his papers and said "here you go, these records prove i am a natural born U.S. citizen."

If he has nothing to hide, he could shut up 90% of his detractors by simply producing the documents. These are not top secret, not disclosing them only hurts him in the election and quite frankly, if you are going for the highest office in the land, i have a damn right to know and so do you! Whether you think the guy bringing the lawsuit is a sleaze ball or not, (yea he is, a little anyway) he makes some very good points that I would love to see Obama address if for no other reason than to put to rest the debate whether he is actually qualified to be president or not.

Quote :

Obama & DNC Admit All Allegations of Federal Court Lawsuit - Obama’s “Not” Qualified to be President
Obama Should Immediately Withdraw his Candidacy for President

For Immediate Release: - 10/21/08 - Complete contact details and a pdf are at the end of this article

(Lafayette Hill, Pennsylvania – 10/21/08) - Philip J. Berg, Esquire, the Attorney who filed suit against Barack H. Obama challenging Senator Obama’s lack of “qualifications” to serve as President of the United States, announced today that Obama and tbe DNC “ADMITTED”, by way of failure to timely respond to Requests for Admissions, all of the numerous specific requests in the Federal lawsuit. Obama is “NOT QUALIFIED” to be President and therefore Obama must immediately withdraw his candidacy for President and the DNC shall substitute a qualified candidate. The case is Berg v. Obama, No. 08-cv-04083.

Berg stated that he filed Requests for Admissions on September 15, 2008 with a response by way of answer or objection had to be served within thirty [30] days. No response to the Requests for Admissions was served by way of response or objection. Thus, all of the Admissions directed to Obama and the DNC are deemed “ADMITTED.” Therefore, Obama must immediately withdraw his candidacy for President.

OBAMA - Admitted:



1. I was born in Kenya.

2. I am a Kenya “natural born” citizen.

3. My foreign birth was registered in the State of Hawaii.

4. My father, Barrack Hussein Obama, Sr. admitted Paternity of me.

5. My mother gave birth to me in Mombosa, Kenya.

6. My mother’s maiden name is Stanley Ann Dunham a/k/a Ann Dunham.

7. The COLB [Certification of Live Birth] posted on the website “Fightthesmears.com” is a forgery.

8. I was adopted by a Foreign Citizen.

9. I was adopted by Lolo Soetoro, M.A. a citizen of Indonesia.

10. I was not born in Hawaii.

11. I was not born at the Queens Medical Center in Hawaii.

12. I was not born at Kapi’olani Medical Center for Women and Children in Hawaii.

13. I was not born in a Hospital in Hawaii.

14. I am a citizen of Indonesia.

15. I never took the “Oath of Allegiance” to regain my U.S. Citizenship status.

16. I am not a “natural born” United States citizen.

17. My date of birth is August 4, 1961.

18. I traveled to Pakistan in 1981 with my Pakistan friends.

19. In 1981, I went to Indonesia on my way to Pakistan.

20. Pakistan was a no travel zone in 1981 for American Citizens.

21. In 1981, Pakistan was not allowing American Citizens to enter their country.

22. I traveled on my Indonesian Passport to Pakistan.

23. I renewed my Indonesian Passport on my way to Pakistan.

24. My senior campaign staff is aware I am not a “natural born” United States Citizen

25. I am proud of my Kenya Heritage.

26. My relatives have requested changes to the portion of my birth certificate that identifies my first name.

27. My relatives have requested changes to the portion of my birth certificate that identifies my last name.

28. My relatives have requested changes to the portion of my birth certificate that identifies my place of birth.

29. I requested changes to the portion of my birth certificate that identifies my first name.

30. I requested changes to the portion of my birth certificate that identifies my last name.

31. I requested changes to the portion of my birth certificate that identifies my place of birth.

32. The document identified as my Indonesian School record from Fransiskus Assisi School in Jakarta, Indonesia is genuine.

33. I went to a Judge in Hawaii to have my name changed.

34. I went to a Senator and/or Congressman or other public official in Hawaii to have my name changed.

35. I had a passport issued to me from the Government of Indonesia.

36. The United States Constitution does not allow for a Person to hold the office of President of the United States unless that person is a “natural born” United States citizen.

37. I am ineligible pursuant to the United States Constitution to serve as President and/or Vice President of the United States.

38. I never renounced my citizenship as it relates to my citizenship to the country of Indonesia.

39. I never renounced my citizenship as it relates to my citizenship to the country of Kenya.

40. I am an Attorney who specializes in Constitutional Law.

41. Kenya was a part of the British Colonies at the time of my birth.

42. Kenya did not become its own Republic until 1963.

43. I am not a “Naturalized” United States Citizen.

44. I obtained $200 Million dollars in campaign funds by fraudulent means.

45. I cannot produce a “vault” (original) long version of a birth certificate showing my birth in Hawaii.

46. My “vault” (original) long version birth certificate shows my birth in Kenya.

47. The only times I was to a Hospital in Hawaii was for check-ups or medical treatments for illnesses.

48. Queens Medical Center in Honolulu, Hawaii does not have any record of my mother, Stanley Ann Dunham (Obama) giving birth to me.

49. Kapi’olani Medical Center for Women and Children in Honolulu, Hawaii does not have any record of my mother, Stanley Ann Dunham (Obama) giving birth to me

50. I was born in the Coast Province Hospital in Mombasa, Kenya.

51. I represented on my State Bar application in Illinois that I never used any other name other than Barack Hussein Obama.

52. I went by the name Barry Soetoro in Indonesia.

53. My Indonesian school records are under the name of Barry Soetoro.

54. I took an Oath to uphold the United States Constitution when admitted to the State Bar of Illinois to practice Law.

55. I took an Oath to uphold the United States Constitution when I was Sworn into my United States Senate Office.

56. I hold dual citizenship with at least one other Country besides the United States of America.

DNC - Admitted:

1. The DNC nominated Barrack Hussein Obama as the Democratic Nominee for President.

2. The DNC has not vetted Barrack Hussein Obama.

3.The DNC did not have a background check performed on Barrack Hussein Obama.

4.The DNC did not verify Barrack Hussein Obama’s eligibility to serve as President of the United States.

5. The DNC admits Barrack Hussein Obama was born in Kenya.

6. The DNC admits Barrack Hussein Obama is not a “natural born” United States citizen.

7. The DNC admits Barrack Hussein Obama was not born in Hawaii.

8.The DNC admits they have not inquired into Barrack Hussein Obama’s citizenship status.

9.The DNC admits they have a duty to properly vette the Democratic Nominee for President.

10.The DNC admits Lolo Soetoro, M.A., an Indonesian citizen adopted Barrack Hussein Obama.

11.The DNC admits the Credentials Committee has been aware of this lawsuit since August 22, 2008 as the lawsuit was faxed to our Washington D.C. Office on August 22, 2008.

12.The DNC admits their Credentials Committee failed to verify and/or inquire into the credentials of Barack Hussein Obama to serve as the President of the United States.

13.The DNC admits their Credential Committee’s Report failed to address the issues of Barack Hussein Obama’s ineligibility to serve as President of the United States.

14.The DNC admits Howard Dean, Chair Person has and had knowledge Barack Hussein Obama was born in Kenya and ineligible to serve as the President of the United States.

15. The DNC admits Plaintiff and all Democratic citizens of the United States have been personally injured as a result of not having a qualified Democratic Presidential Nominee to cast their votes upon.

16. The DNC admits Plaintiff and all citizens of the United States have a Constitutional Right to vote for the President of the United States and to have two (2) qualified candidates of which to choose from.

17. The DNC admits Plaintiff and all citizens of the United States have a Constitutional right to have a properly vetted Democratic Presidential Nominee of which to cast their vote. 18. The DNC admits an FBI background check is not performed on the Presidential or Vice Presidential Candidates.

19. The DNC admits the United States Constitution does not allow for a Person to hold the office of President of the United States unless that person is a “natural born” United States citizen.

20. The DNC admits they collected donations on behalf of Barack Hussein Obama for his Presidential campaign.

21. The DNC admits Plaintiff and Democratic citizens donated money based on false representations that Barack Hussein Obama was qualified to serve as the President of the United States.

22. The DNC admits if Barack Hussein Obama is elected as President and allowed to serve as President of the United States in violation of our Constitution, it will create a Constitutional crisis.

23. The DNC admits Barack Hussein Obama took an Oath to uphold the United States Constitution.

24. The DNC admits allowing a person who is not a “natural born” citizen to serve as President of the United States violates Plaintiff’s rights to due process of law in violation of the United States Constitution.

25. The DNC admits allowing a person who is not a “natural born” citizen to serve as President of the United States violates Plaintiff’s rights to Equal Protection of the laws in violation of the United States Constitution.

26. The DNC admits the function of the DNC is to secure a Democratic Presidential Candidate who will protect Democratic citizen’s interests, fight for their equal opportunities and fight for justice for all Americans.

27. The DNC admits the Democratic National Committee has been promoting Barack Hussein Obama’s Presidential election knowing he was ineligible to serve as President of the United States.

5. My mother gave birth to me in Mombosa, Kenya.

If his mother is a U.S. citizen, it doesn't matter where he was born, it automatically makes him a U.S. citizen. I loled at the rest of the points though. Obama by failure to respond admits Kenya was a British Colony in 1963 What a liar....

Here are the actual court documents.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/document-preview.aspx?doc_id=1078071

i love my job.





Oh and laugh all you want to, that's what the DNC and Obama are likely doing, but that doesn't make it go away, nor does it change the fact that even if he was born a U.S. citizen, he would have lost his citizenship when he immigrated to Indonesia and went to school there because Indonesia, like it says in the documents, didn't provide for duel citizenship and that is the only way that Obama could have gone to school there.

So legally speaking, if Obama was adopted by his father, or even acknowledged by him as his child, which would have been required for him to attend an indonesian school, he would have had to go through immigration making him not natural born but naturalized and ineligible.

Also even if he somehow is still a U.S. citizen according to the constitution, (which is all that matters here) he still holds, to my knowledge, citizenship with both Kenya and Indonesia which also makes him ineligible.



If the guy has nothing to hide, then he should produce the documents. He is only hurting his campaign with this if he is legit.

This probably won't hurt his campaign, because no one cares about this stuff.

He also tried to sue President Bush and claimed 9/11 was an inside job. No one is going to pay attention to this nut-job, and a cursory google search shows it.

This isnt going to affect anything...

It doesnt matter who is president.. They will do as they are told by the people behind the doors.. Neither President will be better or worse than the other..

and lol @ 9/11.. Common sense tells ppl what happened on that day... But a lot of people just lack it.. or don't care because they have a pocket full of money

Granted, nether candidate is qualified or ideal but i would argue that McCain at the very least will be less dangerous to the U.S. than Obama,

and as far as no one paying attention, a cursory google search for me turned up...

http://boards.msn.com/MSNBCboards/thread.aspx?threadid=815625&boardsparam=Page%3D8

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/aug/28/lawsuit-questions-obamas-eligibility-for-office/

Not to mention about four thousand blogs all talking about this. Berg's site also has 50 million + hits now so yes it does matter, and yes it could change the election. I think a lot of people are sitting here going " what the hell is going on in Washington? "

Now granted, these are not CNN because lets be honest, its suicide at this point for anyone in the media outside of the republican talk show hosts to even breath a word of this. Sure you can criticize Obama on issues, but everyone but FOX News is talking like the guy is already elected and the election is basically just for show at this point.

Come to think of it, they have done that for the past three elections. The Democrat mentality for the last 20 some odd years seems to be, "Well if we act like we already won, everyone will want to jump on board and make it happen." So far the results have been 50/50. 8 years of Clinton, 8 years of Bush. Not that ether of them were all that great but that never seems to be an issue.

I'm not even convinced that an independant candidate would do any good at this point. Both the republicans and the democrats would be so butthurt that they would just block anything the guy tried to do out of spite. Im all for revolution at this point. Everyone who makes their career as a politician needs to be retired by force and the Constitution needs to be followed. None of this, well see, what they really meant was this.... It's all bull, and contrary to popular belief, it does matter. If i could run and have a credible chance of getting into politics i would but lets face it, I'm honest, i wouldn't last five minutes in there.

Kade wrote:

Not to mention about four thousand blogs all talking about this. Berg's site also has 50 million + hits now so yes it does matter, and yes it could change the election. I think a lot of people are sitting here going " what the hell is going on in Washington? "

Now granted, these are not CNN because lets be honest, its suicide at this point for anyone in the media outside of the republican talk show hosts to even breath a word of this. Sure you can criticize Obama on issues, but everyone but FOX News is talking like the guy is already elected and the election is basically just for show at this point.

This is all about knowing your sources and recognizing your biases. Just because his website has 50m+ hits does not make him correct, though conspiracy theories can be very popular. If the mainstream media is ignoring it completely, there is probably a reason. Let's not call this "liberal media bias", that is a myth. The media may seem liberal to those on the right simply because they're on the RIGHT. Anything left of you is inherently more liberal, even when it falls in the center. You can consider me on the far left. To me, mainstream media is technically WAY to the right. I don't go screaming about the "Conservative Media Bias". It is only because our starting points are skewed that we see the media as biased. They are pretty impartial for the most part (excluding talking heads, but that's not actually news, it's opinion, so it doesn't count.) I have been trained to recognize my own biases in my worldview and to try to view information, news, etc. with full recognition of my biases.

Also, if you would like, I can post some PDFs of studies done in scholarly, peer-reviewed journals that analyze the media over the last 20 years or so looking for the liberal bias. I am not surprised, but they didn't find any. They actually found that political cynicism and, to a lesser extent, a conservative ideology were indicators of whether or not people felt the media was biased.

Ravey wrote:

This is all about knowing your sources and recognizing your biases. Just because his website has 50m+ hits does not make him correct, though conspiracy theories can be very popular. If the mainstream media is ignoring it completely, there is probably a reason.

Im not saying he is correct. What i am saying is that right or wrong, the Democrats response to this so far breeds distrust of their candidate at the very least, which could very well in turn affect the election.

Quote :

Let's not call this "liberal media bias", that is a myth. The media may seem liberal to those on the right simply because they're on the RIGHT. Anything left of you is inherently more liberal, even when it falls in the center. You can consider me on the far left. To me, mainstream media is technically WAY to the right. I don't go screaming about the "Conservative Media Bias". It is only because our starting points are skewed that we see the media as biased. They are pretty impartial for the most part (excluding talking heads, but that's not actually news, it's opinion, so it doesn't count.) I have been trained to recognize my own biases in my worldview and to try to view information, news, etc. with full recognition of my biases.

Also, if you would like, I can post some PDFs of studies done in scholarly, peer-reviewed journals that analyze the media over the last 20 years or so looking for the liberal bias. I am not surprised, but they didn't find any. They actually found that political cynicism and, to a lesser extent, a conservative ideology were indicators of whether or not people felt the media was biased.

Myth or not, call it what you like but the facts are that the "media" whether liberal or not, has not scrutinized Obama the way that they have scrutinized McCain in this election. Every time there has been an interview of first Obama then McCain by the same show/person/celebrity , Obama is given gloss questions while McCain has been hammered with real questions about real issues.

The exact same was true with Gore vs Bush and Kerry vs Bush. Maybe its my personal bias, but every time i see an interview of the democrat candidate, they get fluff questions, they are never challenged on their positions, they are never given questions they couldn't possibly know off the top of their head, and they are treated like celebrities rather than candidates. On the flip side, every time the media's favorite candidate isn't being interviewed, they actually do their jobs and ask tough questions. In some cases it borders on the absurd.

You can quote all the studies you like, and please do post the PDF's. I can post articles and studies as well that prove the exact opposite. Follow the money, i would be willing to bet that these studies your about to post are funded by, ultra left wingers of some sort with an agenda that is anything but objective.

Random picture cuz politics are evil...

Kade wrote:

You can quote all the studies you like, and please do post the PDF's. I can post articles and studies as well that prove the exact opposite. Follow the money, i would be willing to bet that these studies your about to post are funded by, ultra left wingers of some sort with an agenda that is anything but objective.

I knew this would come. C'mon Ravey, don't you know? Everyone in academia is a damn communist liberal pinko fag!

Oh, and furthermore, Obama has NOT been ordered to submit jack shit because the motion has not been signed by a judge and will most likely be dismissed. Kade, I found this on one of those "crazy, right-wing sites" www.stoptheaclu.com

"1) The order filed by Berg requesting certain items regarding Obama’s citizenship is a BLANK ORDER. It’s not signed by the court’s judge (Surrick). It’s common practice for attorneys to draft up orders in their favor so all the judge has to do is sign it if he/she grants the attorney’s wishes. However, the court already DENIED Berg’s first motion back in August [1], and Berg submitted another motion asking Obama and the DNC to submit documents by October 15th. This motion is moot because the judge has NOT signed it and will most likely dismiss it (again) for reasons I explained earlier (Berg lacks legal standing to sue Obama). It’s kinda like your neighbor pulling you over for speeding - he has no standing to do this! Plus judges tend to brush off pro se lawyers, especially in frivolous cases such as this.

2) Many of you have asked why doesn’t Obama just show up at court with his birth certificate? Berg’s motions are explicit and in a matter of law, if his motion was granted, Obama would have to produce exactly the documents requested. However, a “vault” copy of a birth certificate from Hawaii is NEVER released because it is a vital record protected by statute. So when any citizen orders a birth certificate from the Dept of Health (DOH) in Hawaii [2], he/she is given a Certificate of Live Birth (COLB), which Obama has already made public. The whole notion that Berg used the testimony of “independent forensic experts” who labeled it a “forgery” based on an online picture is ludicrous. How can anyone to determine whether a document is forged or not from a picture on a website? The COLB with the raised seal was authenticated by both the DOH of Hawaii (who obviously seen it in person!) and the US State Dept [3] and is proof enough for the DNC, FEC, INS, US State Dept, and the Senate that Obama is a natural-born citizen of the USA!

3) The other items are irrelevant as a certificate of citizenship and oath of allegiance only apply to naturalized citizens. And for the record, Obama did not “lose” his US citizenship when he lived in Indonesia because immigration laws clearly state a citizen retains his citizenship while living abroad as long as he returns to the US and retains permanent residence before age 25. Obama returned to Hawaii before high school. Besides, it is almost impossible to lose your citizenship!


References:
[1] http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/pennsylvania/paedce/2:2008cv04083/281573/4/

[2] http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/vital_records.html

[3] http://www.state.gov/m/a/auth/c16920.htm"

SON OF A B!!! This computer freaked out and didn't post what I wrote I'll send you PDFs later when I get home and the computer isn't a garbage can with blinking lights lulz

Playing devils advocate for a moment here in regards to legal standing to sue.

If this guy, an American citizen does NOT have legal standing to do this then who the hell does? Who is Obama answerable to at this point? Who in this nation would be able to "pull him over" at this point and say, "im sorry, can i see your proof of citizen ship?" Better yet, who with the authority would actually do it?

Personally I think it is perfectly legal and proper to ask a candidate for the presidency of the united states to produce proof that he was actually born in the states and that he is a legal citizen of the U.S. I think its absurd that when McCain was asked the EXACT SAME THING! he pulled out the pertinent documents and provided them. At the moment there is no question about McCain's citizenship because he has complied completely.

I think that the mere question that Obama isn't a citizen is reason enough to Demand that he produce proof and produce it BEFORE the election. Now personally i couldn't care less about his politics and if the situations were reversed and McCain was sitting there completely ignoring a large segment of the nation who had questions about his citizenship i would argue that McCain owed it to the people he is representing to produce his records.

I think this needs to be addressed specifically before the election. If the guy has nothing to hide then everything is fine and he can continue with the election, but if not then the democrats get to put Hillary in there. You have got to admit that not disclosing any of the requested records makes the guy look guilty as hell and it makes him look like he is hiding something.

Think of this like a job interview. We, the people of the united states are interviewing this guy to be president of the united states. We just held up a cup and said, go pee in it. Obama is basically saying, "Nope, I should still get the job, but I'm not going to take the drug test."

click here to be taken to Obama's birth certificate

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/obama-birth.html

or click here and read about it

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

Kade,

This issue would have to be taken up by the Justice Department, most likely, and state or federal attorneys would have to bring the case to court. He cannot sue Obama over something like this. Don't you republicans hate "frivolous" law suits?

tl;dr

nezitic wrote:

tl;dr

ei?

yeah, i don't get it

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tl%3Bdr

nezitic wrote:

tl;dr

lulz don't worry about it canada. Our elections don't really effect you, do they?

Ravey wrote:

nezitic wrote:

tl;dr

ei?

means

"too long; didn't read"

Dingy wrote:

Kade,

This issue would have to be taken up by the Justice Department, most likely, and state or federal attorneys would have to bring the case to court. He cannot sue Obama over something like this. Don't you republicans hate "frivolous" law suits?

I'm not a republican, I'm a conservative. Big difference.

McCain is the lesser of two evils imo, and since the Justice Department seems completely willing to ignore this for as long as they have, what choice does the guy have?

Unless you can find where the Justice Department specifically said that Obama is a legal citizen of the states and meets all the criteria set forth in the constitution, i would argue that a lawsuit is the only recourse that those of us who care have.

Quote :

click here to be taken to Obama's birth certificate

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/obama-birth.html

or click here and read about it

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

Yea, i have seen this more than a few times, and the odd thing about it is that both of those sites say something different.


Site number 1 says that the document is a reproduction. Now does that mean

• This site reproduced the document from the original?
  
• Does it mean that the document is a reproduction of the original certificate?
  
• Or does it mean that they reproduced the picture of the original.

"The Obama campaign has provided at The Ticket's request what it says is a copy of the Illinois senator's official birth certificate, reproduced here, showing he was born in Hawaii "

All well and good, but was this document typed up on a modern computer from the original? Is this generated by computer when the request for a birth certificate is made?
asd




The Second site says.

"In June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his birth certificate to quell speculative charges"

Also all well and good, but since this site says it was digitally scanned, does that mean that its an actual copy of the original?

If this document is a digital scan of the original document then its clearly fake as hell for a few reasons ill go over here in a second.. However if someone took the original and typed up this document from it, then any number of things can happen along the road including document alteration, information left out, etc etc. At that point it becomes a he said she said thing and the original document needs to be viewed. Not just a reproduced copy of the original.

If this is actually a scan of the original document...

• Why are there no crease marks
  
• Why is this typed up in a computer font rather than a typewriter
  
• Digital Halo's around the words - suspicious even if it is a reproduction btw
  
• Certification rather than Certificate

In short, you couldn't even leave the country with this document. It's more or less worthless and not really proof of anything.
I want to see the original. Hell, even a photo of the original at this point because its pretty damn clear that what he has provided isn't the original, or even a copy there of and i could reproduce that in photoshop given an hour or so.

Kade, did you even read the 2nd site? They actually handled the document themselves. All of the points you contend font, digital halos, etc. were all addressed. You guys are really reaching with some of this crap, honestly.

and frankly, the fact that the republican-run DOJ hasn't done jack shit on this should be a prime indicator that this is all baseless fabrication and serious nut-job conspiracy theorizing at its finest. I'm sure the NSA and CIA know a bit more, too, than some crackpot lawyer.

Kade wrote:

In short, you couldn't even leave the country with this document. It's more or less worthless and not really proof of anything.
I want to see the original. Hell, even a photo of the original at this point because its pretty damn clear that what he has provided isn't the original, or even a copy there of and i could reproduce that in photoshop given an hour or so.

You're right, you can't leave the country with just a birth certificate, you need a passport. Which Obama has. Which means the State Department looked at the birth certificate in question, found it worthy, and issued him a passport. Seriously, what more do you want? By the way, you don't get your "original" birth certificate, you get a copy which is certified. It's so you can go request a new copy if you need multiples or you lose yours. The state keeps the original.